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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Public sector unions have failed.


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45 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:49 AM

The average Chicago school teacher makes $76,000 before benefits and cannot be fired for poor performance. Apparently this isn't enough for them. They rejected a 16% pay raise over the next four years while the rest of Chicago faces 9% unemployment and a $400b budget deficit. Meanwhile Chicago student performance is some of the worst in the entire country. Standardized tests aren't the best way of assessing students or teachers... but when 80% of your eighth graders can't pass a reading comprehension exam, there are some serious accountability problems going on.

Fire them all.

http://www.latimes.c...0,1301512.story
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#2 Guest_Dainer09_*

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

Fire them all.

http://www.latimes.c...0,1301512.story


I am not terribly opposed to this idea.
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#3 OFFLINE   **LS**

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

Sign me up to teach stupid Chicago kids!
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#4 ONLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:20 PM

Sign me up to teach stupid Chicago kids!

Tell me about it...

The gravy train can't last forever though.
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#5 OFFLINE   Tashimojo

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:27 PM

I'd rather see them offer a 16% increase in school funding towards things other than teacher salaries. I have never been to a public school in Chicago but if they're anything like the rest of the nation, the schools are most likely badly needing new, updated supplies, books, facilities, ect.

Also, standardized testing is fucking stupid... just about as stupid as tenure protecting the incompetent.
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#6 OFFLINE   JR Ewing

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

"rising public demand to use standardized test scores in teacher evaluations."

"This year Chicago Public Schools began rolling out a new system in which student test scores would count for 25% of a teacher's performance rating. It would increase to 30% in two years. The union believes the system is too heavily weighted toward test scores and could put thousands of teachers out of work."


Really bad idea.

We know what will happen for sure if the teachers are evaluated by their students' results on standardized tests: the teachers will cheat. That's what happened everywhere else this approach has been used, so it just seems like a really dumb idea to try it in Chicago.

JR
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#7 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Standardized testing is stupid, and it's probably not a good way of evaluating anyone on the margin. But if your success rate is that bad, there must be consequences.

They might cheat, but any other evaluation alternative will be conducted by some union appointed hack and will be essentially worthless.
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#8 OFFLINE   Big Chief Tomahawk

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:49 PM

Tell me about it...

The gravy train can't last forever though.

Automatic 4% raises each year, health care benefits for life and a teachers pension doesn't seem unfair. This is the same union that demanded more money when the school system wanted to extend the class day by one hour. They claim to care about the children, but they just care about protecting the non-performers amongst their ranks. This union obviously does not understand the current economic environment.

Any idea why the Charter Schools here are so popular they need waiting lists? I'll give you a few hints: higher quality education, better test scores and not "required" to employ union teachers (the ability to hire the best overall candidates).

Day 1 of the strike yesterday, and the union president shows up over an hour late for the start of negotiations. What's that tell you about the teachers union?
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#9 Guest_addulous_*

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

Illinois (and the other reamining states) just needs to become a right to work state. If Wisconsin was able to do it, then everyone else can.

lolunions

This point has been edited by addulous: 11 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

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#10 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

Illinois (and the other reamining states) just needs to become a right to work state. If Wisconsin was able to do it, then everyone else can.

lolunions

Wisconsin isn't right to work (yet). But it should be.
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#11 OFFLINE   chicken wing

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

Tell me about it...

The gravy train can't last forever though.


As long as there is a private sector to leech off of, public sector unions will be swimming in gravy. Not to mention the petions they get after retirement.
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#12 Guest_addulous_*

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:05 PM

Wisconsin isn't right to work (yet). But it should be.


ya my bad. i don't think Wisconsin is far away from that. I think thats where Walkers focus is.
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#13 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

As long as there is a private sector to leech off of, public sector unions will be swimming in gravy. Not to mention the petions they get after retirement.

Technically the public sector unions are only granted their status by the body of government made up of people. Turn the governments, and the unions will fall.

Secondly, even governments face budget constraints. They can't run ridiculously high budget deficits (driven by vastly underfunded public sector pension and benefit plans) forever. At some point you have to pay the piper. As governments continue to divert funds from elsewhere, the unions will gradually lose public support.
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#14 OFFLINE   chicken wing

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:24 PM

Technically the public sector unions are only granted their status by the body of government made up of people. Turn the governments, and the unions will fall.

Secondly, even governments face budget constraints. They can't run ridiculously high budget deficits (driven by vastly underfunded public sector pension and benefit plans) forever. At some point you have to pay the piper. As governments continue to divert funds from elsewhere, the unions will gradually lose public support.


Public sector unions in California didn't get the memo yet about running high deficits. Well the "executives" didn't.

Voters in California are pretty stupid. They keep on re-electing the leeches that drive industry and progress out of the state then cry "we have no jobs". All I have to say is that slavery is alive and well in California. Public sector unions are the masters and the private sector workers are getting whipped.
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#15 OFFLINE   Tashimojo

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

Public sector unions in California didn't get the memo yet about running high deficits. Well the "executives" didn't.

Voters in California are pretty stupid. They keep on re-electing the leeches that drive industry and progress out of the state then cry "we have no jobs". All I have to say is that slavery is alive and well in California. Public sector unions are the masters and the private sector workers are getting whipped.

But... Apple is in California, and they are the only source of progress anywhere in the world!
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#16 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:43 PM

Public sector unions in California didn't get the memo yet about running high deficits. Well the "executives" didn't.

The problem here is moral hazard. Unions don't face the consequences they impose on Governments and the public until the Government starts going bankrupt. Til then, they could not care less whether their pensions are funded by money that could go to welfare, roads, bridges, technology investment, or anything else.

Also to be noted, Chicago teachers' benefits packages are considerable: They pay only 10% of their health care premiums... for the remainder of their lives.

This point has been edited by Xcal97: 11 September 2012 - 06:50 PM

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#17 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:06 PM

ya my bad. i don't think Wisconsin is far away from that. I think thats where Walkers focus is.


Fuck Scott Walker. Fuck him right in his lying weasely ass.
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#18 OFFLINE   Xcal97

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:11 PM

Fuck Scott Walker. Fuck him right in his lying weasely ass.

Posted Image

In all seriousness though, why the hate?
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#19 OFFLINE   Tashimojo

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:32 AM

Standardized testing is stupid, and it's probably not a good way of evaluating anyone on the margin. But if your success rate is that bad, there must be consequences.

They might cheat, but any other evaluation alternative will be conducted by some union appointed hack and will be essentially worthless.

You do realize that the cheating renders standardized testing, and evaluating teachers off of it, essentially worthless as well right?
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#20 OFFLINE   Badger

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:46 AM

Fuck Scott Walker. Fuck him right in his lying weasely ass.

Amen to that!!!! I lived in Wisconsin when Walker came into office and anyone who thinks that his plans will result in anything good for Wisconsin is SADLY mistaken.
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